Wonderful. I am a troll. Get FREE domain for 1st year and build your brand new site. great post. You are employed by Microsoft's shareholders. The current distribution is simply pathetic.. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition! My queries on any specific guidance would get no response or the response that youre a 62 and you should be able to figure it out. clinical research associate entry level jobs near me; new laws for first time violent offenders in louisiana. Someone that 20 years ago made something as complex as Notepad may today be a VP, whereas if you make Notepad today you may not even get a pat on the back. Learning Curves and Disillusioned Learners: psychologists have known for years that skill acquisition tends to follow a typical learning curve. At that time, I understood those questions as being just an excuse that the manager used because he or she didnt like something in my skills or personality. Or - are they going to take the easy path and sack people in Europe and Asia? If you're not an Absolutely! "Next, I believe this post will most likely be useful for those who entered MS as intern/college hires. I think folks like that are the one-offs who slipped by and most likely (given the scrutiny I see more and more) certainly wouldn't slip by today. The key thing is finding the right team and manager, along with the comments you made. . It takes a little time to get on your skip-level manager's radar. That figures. Because when it comes time to roll people out of the team (as teams do from time to time) this "No, never" a marker that is used to help figure out who - at I and II CSP levels - is either on-track or out. This is a good list. 1. I changed 3 groups at Microsoft. Needless to say that not many will admit this fact. I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. L63 takes a bit longer but is also fast. Here are the key facts about senior director resumes to help you get the job: The average senior director resume is 776 words long The average senior director resume is 1.7 pages long based on 450 words per page. That's not going to change in six months (which I learned). It's also a well-known fact that there is a disparity in levels between Office and now Sinofsky's Windows and the rest of the company, especially below 65 level.Can anyone elaborate on that? The estimated additional pay is $257,304 per year. Do a search for people in those groups in NYC area and check their status to see who is hiring. I am happy to be an L63, trying to get to L64 so I can relate.How I got here (I started as an industry hire 61 about 5 years ago):1. I've achieved level 65 in a field technical role and it wasn't that hard. Biggest key for me was knowing when to leave a bad management situation and team. What do you do when your manager is an absolute b***h, a disgrace in meetings with other teams and an embarrassment on her good days? Your boss should already have about a year-long plan about who on the team is getting promoted when - it's essential for team promotion budget planning. Furthermore, after reaching a plateua in order to get to the next level of development there is usually a dip in the current performance as the learner starts temporarily letting go of some of the skills they have mastered in order to experiment and try new things. Here's how to find it. I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. They literally lived in GM's office for half a year to get the promo from L64 to L65.3. And your manager will not hate you for thinking about switching -- if you are a great employee to begin with, he will just want to keep you around. For technical and management track, the job level start from 57 and continues till 80. For example, when I joined MS in 1990 there were 6 devs working on the first version of Word for Windows. I am not worried. If you are within striking distance of level 63 in the next few years, then consider yourself VERY fortunate. To anonymous who has spent 3.5 years in role at MS. You're already blacklisted. > Where did you hear this? When you see a bozo who is L65 it is highly likely that he had joined MS recently at L64-L65 directly.Here's biggest difference in expectations between levels: The L62 guys are supposed to be able to lead their feature and perhaps influence couple of related features by spreading their best practices. ;) I have one thing to add that might help some. I sympathize with folks who feel they have been shafted however to quote a cliched saying: the common factor between you and all your problems is you. You must emphasize the goal of understanding how to improve, not just tagging a higher paycheck. take the time to find a mentor that is a great fit for you and the issue you're working on. And if you have a manager who thinks that way, then your manager is a doofus who will never help anyone succeed. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. If it doesn't, what could you add to make that work? But if you can collaborate with others you can help accomplish much more than youll ever be able to accomplish individually. Your boss is the way to your promotion no matter where, what and when. But power plays are at work and I get smacked when I try and take on extra work. My first year I thought for sure I would sit at L61 for another year, but to my surprise I was promoted to L62 without even a full FY under my belt. a Data Scientist 1. Do not accept promises, or you will be already disappointed with your new team as soon as some promises dont materialize (and believe me: you will lose your patience long before some promises materialize). Executing on what you have now at a high rate/quality level.2. It can help you identify blind spots which may be holding you back.7. Levels are different outside the US. Oracle. In MCS, soft skills are often more important than hard skills since you work with customers (often angry ones), sales (often under pressure and looking for someone to blame). Its difficult to transfer to a new position because at a high level, what group is going to take you on to a new position you have no experience in. If it is, awesome -- go do it, drive it to completion. First let's set the expectations right for this quarter and possibly the next: The budgets for promos are shrunk almost everywhere. The reason why they were 65's are:1. an ex-manager used to tell me, if the org needs him to sweep the floor, he would ensure that he would be the best sweeper in the world (no offense to my janitor friends, just an expression). When she finally left the company four years ago things improved greatly. I'm now past my time that I can recruit away from MSFT after leaving some time ago. However, I think this is the first point where we see a non-trivial number of folks plateau. (Summarized: Don't ever let your boss be frightened that you'll make him/her look bad. The average entry-level engineer or program manager will have a total compensation of $125,665. Then I would get emails rating my abilities in these areas that I had no input into it and any replies rebutting it would go unanswered. BG for a big PG in a medium/large sub)L63 = director, then onwards to GM etc62->63 is a tough jump where you need to take ownership for a business segmentYou can go up to L60 pretty easily by nailing commitments year on year and showing you can thrive on increased responsibility, after that it gets harder and you need to proactively lead and drive results that impact the wider business significantly.If you're in sales, it's pretty much all about the total quota you influenceIn my experience, my advice is:- network and help make other groups successful (ideally in a win/win context)- be proactive, propose and grab new challenges and be successful with them- deliver against the CSP's/commitments for the next level up, when you have mastered the current level- make your boss look good, and make his/her boss look good. L7 equals L64 or L65. This is all well and good, but in 9years I've never worked in a group with a Senior IC (Windows, IE, .NET), though some architects. This slighlty contradicts some of the other posts. While I lost a few people who drove great results in that level, overall it was good for their career and also MS over time. This is obviously difficult to manage. Is this a normal situation and should I not be worried?MCS has different pressures regarding levels. So I guess I know what it takes go get to level 63. How many has Live hired this year and OneCare gets cut? Don't just take a L63+ role because of the level. We have covered both technical and management track at Microsoft. In the beginning, I volunteered for these tough areas that no one else wanted and over time, my brand became the fix it guy. There certainly doesn't seem to be any shortage of people wanting in. One of the key lessons is to know who is the gate keeper for your career. Finally make sure you note how things were improved in your and other groups by your new strategy in commitments review. If you send a brownbag invitation to your VP level group then you know your VP is getting it. Being constantly re-orged is bad. Like any organization MS has its own unique culture and cannot possibly be all things for all people. By persist, I do not mean being happy to be at the same <63 level for 3+ years for exmaple. With this article at OpenGenus, you must have the complete idea of various job levels at Microsoft. Heck, we would be lucky if many can do even that well. EQ/IQ and Collaboration. for people, who might claim that they do all this and still cant progress.. dude, either you are in wrong group or you have not introspected / taken feedback well or you are missing the whole thing by a mile. Risk and return are related. Think about why they're able to do that.These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post. Unless you know for sure that your boss's answer is an immediate "Absolutely!" Senior->principal->partner are the level bands, 63/64->65/66/67, 68/69/70. You can work hard and grind it out. Lots of groundwork, considerable drama and leverage but eventually it got done. I came in at L61 2+ years ago. I made sure I was the fastest, most efficient, and best bug fixer. You've made 3 mistakes. Have you honed in on what aspects of this brand are most important in the calibration discussions and know how you'll show you're a rockstar in these areas? Thankfully, those are relatively uncommon. Thats a very helpful answer. A mentor helps tremendously. This number represents the median, which is the midpoint of the ranges from our proprietary Total Pay Estimate model and based on salaries collected from our users. I haven't seen one single person getting hired below L63 in my group during last year. I joined The Company 2 weeks ago, far from 63, but all you said it's very valuable for defining a career path. It makes a difference in your relationship. Especially since the days of job title/level transparency.People should not forget that many times, higher levels do not equal higher pay. The people around you can help with that. Success breeds Success: I remember reading an article about an extensive study to determine the best predictor of a stocks price tomorrow. right?). So he is looking to become partner this year on the team's work. The estimated base pay is $243,438 per year. After I became a lead & manager, I was given a team in turmoil after a re-org and straightened that out. Also known as executive-level, senior-level seniority requires a high level of experience, knowledge and responsibility within a company. Be nice, and clear in your communications. I was in a group that was reorging constantly and there were frequent management changes, so it took all of the political skill I'd developed over the years to focus my GM on giving me that fucking promotion. Just like a lot of folks have a fetish to be managers even when it is against their natures.Having said this, consider which is better: a) Rushing through the levels and to be stuck in 64 for ages (to be Kim'd is especially painful here) - think Sarah Palin orb) Going through the levels at a healthy pace, getting far deep into the salary ranges that will assure higher pay when the new levels come. As someone who left MS @ L63 - and supposedly tracking strongly to L64 - and who has seen a lot of questionable promos occur, I think it's fair to say that the rise to "Senior" follows a slighly skewed distribution curve in that in the largest bucket case, you can probably see that L63 was warranted.However, on either end of the distribution, by which I mean people who easily obtained it and people who seriously struggled to obtain it, there are some disturbing anomalies that are difficult to explain away.You might say, "I can live with the corner cases" and I would agree that optimizing for those isn't worthwhile.BUT! All of my peers are SDE II's, so L61-L62.The advice is simple:First, NAIL the fundamentals. And how do you represent yourself as a leader and influencer when you are in a room with 6 other people vying for the exact same thing? Most of our ways of doing things have so many imperfections that you would not have any trouble to find obvious thing to improve in obvious ways. mini,time to start a new blog: maybe around current economy and msft. Levels.fyi gives different levels for Microsoft v amazon depending on pm or dev. My promotion to 63 came not when I helped my group out of one of their many nightmares but when I helped an uncle. Browse all Microsoft Software Engineering Manager salaries Frequently asked questions Buy a Principal a coffee. Is there any way to get to 63 w/o leaving and coming back? I have only required two strategies. Seriously, your GM or VP owns the decision to do transparent titling. How bad is this? Also, never ascribe to malfeasance what may simply be due to incompetence. For some teams - especially those like Office with few departures release-to-release resulting in level compression - that's a rough bunch. I left eight years after that when I realized that L66 wasn't going to happen for me.The bottom line: If your boss isn't pushing for you, get them on your side or leave the group. First, self criticism to identify weaknesses. "2) Peel the onion. While cash bonuses stay relatively stable as a percentage of salary over the course of a Microsoft employee's career, stock compensation can rise to nearly 20% of annual income at higher levels, according to the crowdsourced data. The good thing in most teams here is that if you persist, you will get there. I've been at Microsoft six years.I've never spent one second honestly thinking about my career or how to get a promotion or anything like that. Who cut and paste buggy shit all over the codebase and don't know some of the things that a good L62 should know. Popping out of the pack in peer reviews may take some time so you have to be diligent, consistent and never give up. You havent seen nothing yet. It varies greatly from manager to skip.The hardest point for me to bear is that I am young, capable of doing so much more, and absolutely dying to do more. Sometimes leaving MS is good. Do it nicely. With wide-eyed wonder he asked WHAT? I said whatever the @#$% your manager most needs you to do!6. Yes, "soft skills" count.I'm pleased that someone said it.There are a collection of skills that are difficult to quantify that are absolute necessities to succeeding at higher levels. Woow. This is the first year I have spent more than 2 years at a level (L61) and still not gotten a promotion. For me, it will take some serious job switching to get there. Microsoft Director level role - Level 66 - what should I expect from COMP sideYOE-15Current TC- 235k Skilled in Surfer 8, MS Project, Primavera, Microsoft Excel, Analytical Skills, Customer Service, Customer Success Management, Vendor Management and Sales. The "how" now has broader impact. Now a VP at a small cap (and growing, yes in this economy) company. The reason: there are a number of factors of success that are common at all levels (see #6 and #7 below). To change Microsoft so that it is small and efficient, and therefore more in line with your thinking?Are you changing your stance because you're leaving the 'hoi polloi' behind? Mini -- you left out the most important option, which I took. It's a question your boss gets asked so it's not a surprise to them. I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. Once you identify those things scream about it by sending email with problem and solution and offer leadership to eliminate that imperfection. Exceptional Director, hardworking, reliable, efficient, a team player, flexible to work 24 hours shift rota, prioritise my workload at all time, managing customers and team, managing safely, ability to carry out Risk Assessments and how to manage such Risks to minimal, excellent report written skills, excellent communicate skills both verbal and written forms including presentation using . Most organizations will do promo/slate through a consensus/stack rank process. I would get vague directives like you need to be the thought leader or you need to improve your system knowledge. The funding for our project stopped and our vendor team of 28 people have been asked to leave immediately. Shock and awe awaits. If you know higher leveled people in another org, ask them to poke holes in your proposals. Executive Vice President and Chief Marketing Officer. You have to enjoy it, or else it'll come across as insincere, and you'll do a half assed job. Titles are important, and dont let anyone make you believe otherwise. New Senior Director Human Resources jobs added daily. There is only one item in this list: visibility. Level 61 - overseas. Don't spend so much time worrying about the next notch on the ladder: your goal should be to learn new things, to get something cool done and to find things to do that are fun for you.2. and hey if it backfires (eg the mgr flips), I can always take the offer at hand and leave MS.thoughts? In my co-workers case, they overloaded him with work and then documented anything that fell through the cracks until they had enough to get rid of him.I'm sure HR throttles managers when this is going on. It is possible to get promoted out of a desire to be promoted. So honestly, what is your boss's answer about if you'll reach L63? Sign up on LinkedIn and join the Microsoft Employees or ex-MSFT employees groups and then you'll see them posted. I have had 3 positions in the past 8 years and best advise i can give is NETWORKING. I am offered a job at L65 and job offer has a title Director on it! These two lines really serve to summarize the incoherent blithering that was jcr's post.Whoa, really? Right now I am 56. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. Really inspiring. I'd like to see a transition plan from you in 2 days". As a member of the Microsoft UK Senior Leadership Team, Olaf leads Microsoft's retail and consumer goods . Managers plan out promotion timeframes far in advance. Understand not just what needs to happen, but WHY. Senior level executive excelling at increasing operational efficiencies, improving . Leverage your professional network, and get hired. If you are level 64 and above, your relationship with your GM or VP or above.2) Your visibility to the GM or VP. Some can even challenge you and give you the tough love and direction you need. Yet, I know that a friend just got one. Great post! Only one can emerge, and not everyone can be a senior simultaneously. If only your manager knows you then it is unlikely (at least on paper) that you will move beyond L62. New shiny brain up and working now. My boss even made mistakes. As for asking for promotions, I disagree that you must always be asking. I call B.S. If you're going into that comfort zone of complaining about politics and butt-kissing and favorites, do me this favor: hold your right palm up, nice and flat like you're about to be sworn in to testify in a trial, and now extend your right arm out nice and wide, and then quickly swing your right arm around the front of you in a nice arc that ends with the flat of your right hand quickly connecting to the left side of your face for a hard, resounding slap. The PM team loved having my technical expertise freely available, and I actually really like designing features too.Anyway, two simple things, but I think what Mini said about not doing this IN ORDER to get promoted is key. Tech savvy yet entrepreneurship minded hence able to see things from . Harder for L64. The biggest lesson I learned here was how to work *with* other teams, even when I thought they weren't very good and even when our purposes didn't align. When it comes to where you actually rank and what you get paid that part is all that matters. At a basic level, in a company the size of Microsoft, the higher you go, the less you contribute individually and the more you contribute by your impact on an organization - hiring the right people, setting clear and correct goals, driving alignment and execution. Maybe Steve Jobs' psychotic approach to managing by terror is not properly described in English as "junk yard dog mode" (standing up for what needs to be done vs. mind-numbing consensus wallowing). Saturday, November 15, 2008. If your boss is saying "Yes, ready for promo now" and your skip is saying "No, not now" well, why? Most Directors are 63 and the occasional 64. Happy hunting. Outside of those two situations, I have never asked for a promotion. Leadership, for instance. And, ironically, some titles make your manager automatically have to adjust your level after a certain time, in order to comply with certainly HR guidelines.- Buy your principal a coffee, hear everything, and dont follow everything. I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.Well please don't just tease us and leave it there. That means, know what people think about you and what they don't. This is a discussion to foster debate and by no means an enactment of policy-violation. Make sure you have chosen commitments that you can exceed, and that you deliver visible and significant value to your business and customers. This is an opportunity to really do great work and innovate - learn to do your best work in the face of adversity and limited budgets and you will most likely to do well. Of course everyone wants to be promoted every review, so don't bother asking right after your last promotion.What matters most is that you are doing what your manager thinks deserves to get you promoted. There are definitely projects you can work on with your manager to increase your visibility, but if things don't happen right away just keep at it.Your manager should be able to give you fairly specific feedback on where you stand in your skip-level's eyes. Will there be budget? Ill answer first question later in this comment. I basically lost 5 years of growth due to a bad manager and my own unwillingness to own my career. How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? Tips for getting them on your side:1) Ask for Exceeded. Asshole managers aren't unknown at Apple [] The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate cultureThanks for a nice belly laugh to re-energize my morning. Attack problems within your own areas of influence proactively and generate that same good vibe among peers. I think it's important to be very up-front andto use a clichetransparents with your manager regarding your next steps and prospects for promotion. They didn't want to plateau, but that is just where they were given MS talent pool. But the opportunities I see doing X seem to be compelling from a financial and growth standpoint. I think there's only one thing I would add, from the perspective of having been promoted from L59 to L64 in a 6-year period in one org (I left MS in 2006).Sometimes things within an org will turn to complete crap, and either there's not an option to leave or you may not want to. I've changed jobs but came back to the group that's been the most supportive. Great post and comments. Sometimes i laugh when i read the armchair CEO's on this thread - there is a lot of criticism of Steve, but 99% of our brains would absolutely pop if we had to confront the complexity of decisions he makes in one day. At L63 in particular you break out of the pack with expertise in the "how" you accomplish things. They will have thought this out. What are other groups doing? I am soliciting ideas to reduce cost in this blog. They have commitments to grow their employees. >> Grammar nitpicking is fine when it's accurate.Wow, those sic[s] really are all [sic]s, and you went out of your way to refute them with invalid proofs and an assumed air of infallibility.Obviously you are a manager of HR managers soon to be promoted to GM. Highly effective Finance leadership; ability to deliver results by leading through example while setting high personal standards; Partnering with the business and influencing . If I'm going to be late delivering something, give folks advance notice.3. There may be multiple reasons for pay differences - one of which is a small number of salaries submitted per job. Be the Rosh Gadol Microsoftie. Then do it.Yeah yeah, that's an oversimplification. Often this is where a perceived negative attitude or lack of soft skills will hurt you the most.Your immediate boss can often look beyond that to the benefit you bring to the organization - mostly because it also directly benefits him or her. Hi,Now that the Annual review is approaching, I wanted to seek tips on justification putforth to the manager to move from L60-L61. Can any reader in Corp Sales Excellence(SMS&P) privide guidance on how to grow from 63 to 64 in that group. And to your skip level. I know there is always new hope that comes with new leadership, but there is also a restart too. Think about it. Great post! Given all that, the two things that are key to promotion are:1) Your relationship with your skip level manager. How? jcr said >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. I am currently going to school which should help the moves to a better position. Don't give up.I'd appreciate it if you'd do a similar post on the 65 to 65 transition. You may not need them to get from 59->60, but if you're good at them, it'll make your rise much quicker. In this testing times what will motivate the mgr to put you ahead of him/hers? Obviously a key word in my advice was explicitly. The conclusion: its price today! Those teams I used to despise as a L60, and only tolerate as a 63?